Terms & Conditions

[barryb]

Hi

I feel I should know the answer to this question but here goes. I have a young person on her Mum’s HB claim. They have finished their A levels and child benefit has ended effective 4 September. They are going to university later in the month. My question is can we treat her as a non-dep student from 4 September or should there be a period where there is a non dep deduction up until the date her course starts?

[pbirks]

assumonmg she is under 20, she is a dep until the end of the week which includes 31 August – so sher stops being a dependant on Sunday 3 September, starts being a non dep on Monday 4 September and non dep charges kick in Monday 11 September

so HB lowest non dep charge for period 11 September -up to end of benefit week her course starts.

She has a school leavers exemptoion for ctax from September – 31 October so non non dep charges for that (and presumabnle she’ll be a ft uni student before then

[Andy Thurman]

Good question – I have genuinely seen both approaches used (and unchallenged by auditors) and have struggled to decide which I consider to be correct.
One clear thing here is that the switch to non-dep (student or otherwise) should be 11th September not 4th. The first day that they are not a QYP is 4th September so it takes effect from the following Monday.

I’ve actually always leaned with reluctance towards the need for a lowest deduction until the term commenced but, having looked at it again today, I feel compelled to find that no deduction is required:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/understanding-academic-years
This is quite persuasive in determining that they can be viewed as a student from 1st September. HB Regs Part 7 can appear to negate this but, if they are not “a full-time student during a period of study within the meaning of Part 7 (Students)”, what are they?? Surely they must be a student during a recognised summer vacation appropriate to their course – even though they have not yet started…

There’s my starter…

[barryb]

The young person is 19 so we’ve treated him as such until the last day of August, being the earliest date after he’d left education. The effective date that he becomes a non-dep is therefore the following monday, which is 4 September. I appreciate there is an exemption for Ctax so that there is no non-dep deduction for CTS covering the period between a young person becoming a non-dep and them starting their university course. My question is, is there a HB reg that allows something similar?

[Andy Thurman]

Barry, he is a QYP until the end of the week that includes 31 August (not the day itself), hence PBirks and I both asserting that they become a non-dep on 4th, effective from following week.

[pbirks]

You need to look at the Child benefit regs and then look at the HB change in circs regs –

1st – the child benefit regs state what the terminal date is for someone who hasnt turned 20

Qualifying young person: terminal dates
7.—(1) This regulation applies in the case of a person who has not attained the age of 20.

(2) The condition is that the period found in accordance with Cases 1 and 2 has not expired in that person’s case]

Case 1
 

1.1The period is from the date on which he ceases to receive relevant education or approved training, up to and including—
(a)the week including the terminal date, or
(b)if he attains the age of 20 on or before that date, the week including the last Monday before he attains that age.
1.2For the purposes of this Case the “terminal date” means—
(a)the last day in February,
(b)the last day in May,
(c)the last day in August,
(d)the last day in November,

the key phrase here is THE WEEK INCLUDING the terminal date – so they are classed as a QYP for the WEEK which includes 31 August
now we look at basic Hb stuff
our weeks run Monday to Sunday
the end of the week which includes 31 August is Sunday 3rd September – so that is the end date for them being a dep
the day after (monday 4th) they become a non dep and change in circs rules dictate that takes effect from the monday after the first day of change – so non dep charges kick in 11th September

While Im all for Benefit Maximisation and willing to stretch a reg ( or even use a Closed period superssion!) i cant quite agree with Mr Thurman’s idea that a non dep charge shouldnt apply

But he is a lot smarter/knowlegable than i am so he may have a good point

but the end date of them being a dep definately is sun 3 September, not 31 august

• This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by pbirks.

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