Terms & Conditions

[c_dewdney]

We have a 1st tier tribunal decision that contrdicts DWP guidance. We feel that it is only fair that we give the DWP a chance to amend their guidance or take the matter to upper tribunal (so that there is caselaw on the subject).

My query is, what should we do while waiting for the DWP to decide what they wish to do (implement or delay)?

If we were to implement the 1st tier tribunal decision now (revise in appellant’s favour), would that effect the DWP’s ability to take the case to Upper Tribunal?

[Peter Barker]

You can suspend or part-suspend HB in a case where an appeal is pending from the FtT to the UT. You can also suspend or part-suspend while it is still possible to appeal because you are considering obtaining an SOR, awaiting an SOR, or an SOR has already been issued, and the Council is pondering whether to appeal – see D&A Reg 11(3). It doesn’t seem to cover a case where you have an SOR and you are waiting to see whether DWP wants to appeal.

DWP can appeal – see para 8 of Schedule 7 to the CSP&SS Act 2000.

[Andy Thurman]

You say that the decision contradicts DWP guidance. What do you think? Do you think the guidance is correct? The LA is not bound by the guidance (as they themselves consistently remind LA’s) – it is for the Authority to determine according to the legislation.
So, if you fully agree with the interpretation in the guidance (believe the tribunal has erred in law), you should possibly be considering a further appeal yourselves?? You have the options to suspend set out by Peter.
The other option is to cheerfully accept the tribunal decision and leave the DWP to act if they want to.

[John Boxall]

Why as a Local Authority do you want to get involved in a UT case if you dont have to?

Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery. The blossom is blighted, the leaf is withered, the god of day goes down upon the dreary scene, and—and in short you are for ever floored.

Wilkins Micawber, Ch12 David Copperfield

[Peter Barker]

Because it’s fun!

[John Boxall]

‘That must be a meaning of the word ‘Fun’ I am not familiar with’ After Marvin

Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery. The blossom is blighted, the leaf is withered, the god of day goes down upon the dreary scene, and—and in short you are for ever floored.

Wilkins Micawber, Ch12 David Copperfield

[David]

Peter Barker wrote:

Because it’s fun!

True, but unaffordable for most authorities in most situations

[John Boxall]

I suspect that Peter is probably well versed in going to the UT in a way that most of us are not, rather in the same way that my brother can fly Gyrocopters but I leave the things well alone.

Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery. The blossom is blighted, the leaf is withered, the god of day goes down upon the dreary scene, and—and in short you are for ever floored.

Wilkins Micawber, Ch12 David Copperfield

[Peter Barker]

David wrote:

Peter Barker wrote:

Because it’s fun!

True, but unaffordable for most authorities in most situations

Says the man who took the definition of “sheltered accommodation” to the Court of Appeal! Taking one for the team

[John Boxall]

I often wonder, given the cost how many potential cases never go to the UT because if a Local Authority has got a decision from the FTT even if its plainly bonkers we have no incentive to do anything with it.

Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery. The blossom is blighted, the leaf is withered, the god of day goes down upon the dreary scene, and—and in short you are for ever floored.

Wilkins Micawber, Ch12 David Copperfield

[Peter Barker]

Being serious now, the only cost is the time you take to write the submission, which is actually much less of a grind than an FtT sub. Oral hearings are quite unusual. You can normally knock out an application for permission to appeal in a couple of hours

[c_dewdney]

Thanks for the quick responses.

My personal opinion is that the tribunal decision is correct and the DWP guidance manual is wrong.

My concern was if I revised our decision (in line with the tribunal’s decision and in the appellant’s favour), I would remove the ability for the DWP to challenge the decision (if they wanted to dig their heals in and not change the guidance until there was caselaw to support the change in guidance).

[Peter Barker]

No, the Tribunal has already replaced your decision: the decision now in force is the one that the Tribunal has made and that you agree with. It does not require any further action by the Council to give effect to this decision. If you pay HB in accordance with the decision, you won’t be depriving DWP of their right to appeal but you will potentially be making an overpayment, which is why there is power to suspend

[Author]

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