Information about non-resident carer’s permanent address?

Currently, there are 0 users and 1 guest visiting this topic.
Viewing 9 posts - 1 through 9 (of 9 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #286195
    johnmadden
    Participant

    Hello,

    Got a chap who needs overnight care which is not disputed. Care is provided by four different people covering different nights. Acceptance of this will allow extra bedroom. Our policy is to ask for name and address of carers. They are refusing to comply with provison of addreesses. They quote privacy issues and seem to have had some concerns with that with other agencies. We’ve reduced HB (one less bedroom need) as they (the carer) refused to comply. When claim first paid we didn’t ask for this info (assessor oversight). We are reviewing entitltment They have appealed. And made a formal complaint.

    Seems to me we are possibly on shaky ground here? Caselaw looks a but thin but the first task of the Tribunal is to identify the ‘information requirement’ (R(H)1/09) in the context of HBR86 ‘as may be reasonably required by the relevant authority in order to determine that person’s entitlement to or continued entitlement to, housing benefit’.

    The onus is on the LA to prove the reasonableness of the evidence/information that it has determined is needed and that it is within its power to seek. The LA must explain why the information is required and what it is intended to achieve (CH/2555/07). Is it required to properly determine HB entitlement, if so how is that demonstrated? If the LA requirements are reasonable then a refusal to comply is unreasonable. If it makes no difference to the award then not reasonably required. We need to demonstrate that our information requirements under HBR86 are reasonable. It seems to me that the address of the carer could be argued as not being material to the HB award. What difference does it make where the carer lives in the context of HB entitlement (it’s affect on CTax discounts is a separate issue).

    I wonder what stance other LAs take on this particular point?

    Any observations most welcome.

    Cheers

    #286196
    John Boxall
    Participant

    The question to start with in any request for information should be ‘why do I need this’

    So if you can say ‘we need this information because…….’ then you may well be home and dry but if you cant find a reason why you need it and are reducing his entitlement because you dont have it then you are in for an interesting time at Tribunal and with your Complaints Officer.

    Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery. The blossom is blighted, the leaf is withered, the god of day goes down upon the dreary scene, and—and in short you are for ever floored.

    Wilkins Micawber, Ch12 David Copperfield

    #286197
    Andy Thurman
    Keymaster

    It does not seem that you are doubting the provision of overnight care? I have to say I am struggling to see how the addresses of the carers is needed.

    #286206
    Kay_Tade
    Participant

    The address of the carer is required to ascertain the facts.

    One bit is that overnight care is required and the other bit is that the care is actually being provided and by someone not resident at the address(That is a requirement in the regs) so you need to establish where the overnight carer calls “home”.

    #286208
    pbirks
    Participant

    surely though, if you already know who licves in the claimant address, you will know that the name of the overnight carer isnt part of the household.

    If you are satisfied 1) thee customer has overnight care 2) requires overnight care and 3) has a spare bedroon then Im not sure why you need the address.

    What if the care is provided by a group of family/friends? My granny used to have my aunt stay overnight regularly, but sometime when my aunt needed a break, id visit my gramnnt for the weekend – a trip of approx 115 miles – i still provided overnight care regularly (once every 6-8 weekds)

    You dont need the address in order to make a determnation so im not sure why you are asking for info you do not need

    #286211
    John Boxall
    Participant

    But if we decide that the carer lives with the claimant then they become a non dep so get the extra room that way.

    If yo had some reasonable doubt that the claimant WASNT in fact getting overnight care then thats a whole other ball game

    Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery. The blossom is blighted, the leaf is withered, the god of day goes down upon the dreary scene, and—and in short you are for ever floored.

    Wilkins Micawber, Ch12 David Copperfield

    #286213
    Kay_Tade
    Participant

    The reg says what it says, it is not a case of interpretation, as it says the carer “is not an occupier”, for obvious reasons.

    Person who requires overnight care:

    (b) whom the relevant authority is satisfied reasonably requires, and has in fact arranged, that one or more people who do not occupy as their home the dwelling to which the claim or award for housing benefit relates should—

    #286214
    pbirks
    Participant

    and you already know who the occupiers are of the property – because you ave an active HB claim
    So customer says various friends come and stat, including friends from my church Karen Jones and Larry Bennett and my grown up son Guy.
    none of these are listed as residents at the clmty address, ergo they must be non resident .

    Knowing their address doesn’t help you decide whether you believe the customer is getting overnight care, which is what needs to be decided upon. it just confiorms what you already know, that they dont live with the customer.

    #286215
    johnmadden
    Participant

    Thanks everyone for the constructive comments. I can see both sides but am leaning towards the we don’t need it camp.

    I wonder what your own LAs procedures are, be they written or just custom and practice?

    Cheers

Viewing 9 posts - 1 through 9 (of 9 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.