Terms & Conditions

[peterdelamothe]

The new plan is to double Council Tax for all second properties by April 2025. There are a lot of them and I suspect many of the owners will not even notice the increase.

The expectation is that this will bring in around £250 million extra per year.

Similar scheme already in operation in Wales. https://www.gov.wales/council-tax-empty-and-second-homes-html

It is interesting that all the political parties are looking to increase the current scheme rather than revaluation.

Will all these proposed changes affect the cost of CTS I wonder?

[markg]

There could be scope in this, if the premium is implemented, to use some of the revenue generated to fund more generous CTS schemes, and thereby stop the need to purse recovery on what are often relatively small , but unpaid, amounts. Some significant admin savings perhaps, plus help for families right now has got to be a good thing.

And apparently the Telegraph reported this:

The Telegraph’s investigation found that 78 out of the 297 authorities responsible for council tax have already given their seal of approval for the move. The votes have been collected because councils must give a year’s notice before hiking taxes.

Well, that’s lovely, but our legal advice is that councillors cannot make a decision on something that is not yet law. So, some councils may have got an ‘in principle’ decision now, but will need to go back to Full Council, to obtain a decision, once the Regen & Levelling Up Bill receives Royal Assent.

[peterdelamothe]

It is interesting that all parties are piling ever more on to Council Tax markg. The increase this year was 5% average and of course the social levy. Some Councils like Croydon increased by 15%. Labour are looking at getting rid of the 25% single person discount….although whether that will be for top bands is not clear. One issue I guess is to to encourage single people living in large houses to downsize.

So add on the extra amount for top four bands as suggested in Scotland, this new policy and other proposals….it seems that Treasury are looking around for where else they can tax and raise new money.

What next? A garden tax perhaps? That was previously suggested. Unlikely. What is a “garden”? It would also be possible to justify an extra 20% across the board because of the lack of revaluation over so many years. Personally I would like to see extra bands at the top bearing in mind how many properties are worth £5 to £50 million.

One handy issue with increasing Council Tax is that you dont have to exclude pensioners. They have their own CTB scheme which Councils cannot reduce. I see the prospect myself that for many pensioners their SRP after tax will just pay their Council Tax, water rates and energy costs.

[markg]

Yes, council tax is being looked at. i shall say no more or else i might get into trouble.

I look forward then to the endless debate around ‘what is a garden?’ just like we had with ‘what is a bedroom?’ for bedroom tax purposes.

Will the garden need to have a certain square meterage of greenery to qualify. Must one be able to fit at least 4 gro-bags in the space for it to be a ‘garden’? Will concreting over the whole lot amend the definition?
The possibilities are endless.

[John Boxall]

I would suggest that a revaluation is long overdue.

I dont think that it was particularly onerous first time round.

I would also suggest a greater degree of ‘proportionality’ so that higher value properties pay a fairer share, and perhaps some sort of ‘lower rate’

Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery. The blossom is blighted, the leaf is withered, the god of day goes down upon the dreary scene, and—and in short you are for ever floored.

Wilkins Micawber, Ch12 David Copperfield

[John Boxall]

I would also suggest making the owner the liable party because that would reduce admin costs and simplify recovery.

Also why not make ‘non residential’ property liable for business rates instead?

Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery. The blossom is blighted, the leaf is withered, the god of day goes down upon the dreary scene, and—and in short you are for ever floored.

Wilkins Micawber, Ch12 David Copperfield

[Mike Hughes]

Pardon the pun but this is an incredibly politically charged issue in Wales. In England it’s about income and reform and charged in a slightly different way. In Wales it’s very much driven by an increasing nationalism driven in turn by some of the actions of the Westminster government. I would expect to see far more movement on reform in Wales than England. Won’t play well elsewhere and will doubtless be actively resisted but you reap what you sow so it won’t be going away any time soon.

[John Boxall]

There is a land rights/land value tax movement in Scotland as well, I dont think that second homes are such an issue there except perhaps on Arran

Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery. The blossom is blighted, the leaf is withered, the god of day goes down upon the dreary scene, and—and in short you are for ever floored.

Wilkins Micawber, Ch12 David Copperfield

• This reply was modified 4 months ago by John Boxall.

[Mike Hughes]

Yeah I think that’s right. Scotland is a different beast.

In Wales there is a very direct link to a nationalist movement which is calling for actual independence rather than further devolution. For all the disputes which make headlines the reality in Wales is there has largely been a political and social polity for a couple of decades which is now collapsing in the manner of ice sheets in the Antarctic i.e. it looks relatively small on the surface but the stuff going on underneath is huge. Entirely triggered by Westminster and their “We are committed to the union” stuff on the one hand, allied to the clear contradictions in actions which suggest anything but.

[John Boxall]

Both Wales and Scotland are very different, socially & politically to the UK, says an Englishman (And a PSPS member) married to a Scot whose parents lived in Wales at various stages of their lives

Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery. The blossom is blighted, the leaf is withered, the god of day goes down upon the dreary scene, and—and in short you are for ever floored.

Wilkins Micawber, Ch12 David Copperfield

[Mike Hughes]

Welsh exile in England here. Married to someone with an Irish Salfordian background. Some interesting Scottish friends. Not sure the English have grasped or will ever grasp the complexity of what they’re surrounded by 🙂

[peterdelamothe]

I doubt wales or Scotland could survive financially on their own in these current times. The U.K. has far too much debt and is sliding down the list of wealthy countries. Easy to come up with new populist policies but the long term implications are the thing. Scotland are considering banning buy to let mortgages for instance. You can see the good and bad points to that. How it will turn out…who knows?

[Mike Hughes]

That’s the trope isn’t it. The English line is simply “You can’t survive without us” when really there’s limited evidence to that effect to say the least. Nations have survived and thrived having started from far worse positions. That line can be repeated ad nauseum but the maths are nebulous and convenient at best.

That said, and I’m not a separatist, the reality is that nationalism and separatism in both countries is taking a hold in both places precisely because English politicians are saying one thing about the union but doing the exact opposite repeatedly.

This story – https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-61993538 – is fairly typical I think. Basically, we have a budget which can’t be reduced but then… it is. Same week as someone called Johnson talked yet again about the strength of the union. What on earth do people really think the consequences of stuff like this is? In Wales the words Cofiwch Dreweryn resonate louder by the year and yet the same thing is about to happen again. Once again the protagonists talk of their believe in the strength in the union. As a reserve fund or reserve of resources maybe…

[peterdelamothe]

Mike…I think Scotland should be allowed to become independent. Like Brexit it dominates the agenda. I remember going to Malta after their independence. I was shocked at the state of the Island and how much of the history, the historical buildings, were in a state of collapse. I asked a very honest local, who explained that Malta had celebrated for a year and then asked who was going to pay for everything. They thought the Russians would but that never happened. Cheaply built hotels and bargain tourism was the partial answer.

I see no reason to maintain a Union if agreement can be reached so long as it is final.

[Mike Hughes]

A very astute person once noted that there is no country in history which has reversed the tide of independence. It’s a one way road where there may be opportunities to progress slowly or slower but none to reverse. Scotland will happen in my lifetime. Wales may not but it’s started now and there’s no going back.

[Author]

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