Amendment 9 – Oh what fun!

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  • #1002
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Martin,

    Saw that “aide memoir” too. What did you think of Example 3:

    Period of Award 12/05/2003 – 05/04/2004
    Award Notice – 19/05/2003
    First (4 wkly) payment 26/05/2003

    HB income start date 12/05/2003.

    Calculated using fact that first payment is “in arrears” and covers entire period from beginning of award.

    No arrears to calc.

    Whaddya think?

    #1003
    Mark
    Participant

    Well Peter, now that we’re onto 2 pages I wonder what other “guidance” will be offered.

    Example 3 of the Aide Memoir has been taxing (sorry about the pun) me all afternoon. It contains a scenario that is not in Amendment 9 – i.e. awards made after 6th April where the start date of the award is before the date the award is made but no arrears are payable because the first payment made is “on time”.

    This “on time” business is clearly related to the fact that the payments are 4-weekly and the first payment is made within 4 weeks of the start date of the award. What they seem to have missed is that if this was a combined WTC and CTC award the CTC would very likely be paid weekly. Therefore, the first payment of that would NOT be on time. So – this means that not only would there be some CTC payment “of arrears” (a day or so’s worth), but that this would mean that the CTC gets taken into account in HB/CTB from a different date than the WTC! What’s more, the period to average it over would also be different because they would want us to use the date of the award notice to 5/4/04 for the CTC but start date of the award to 5/4/04 for the WTC.

    Peter De Lamothe suggested earlier that this couldn’t get any worse but I think it just did.

    #1004
    Mark
    Participant

    And while it occurs to me…..the amendment 9 method for working out how much of an award is “of arrears” is to look for an amount bigger than the ongoing instalments. I wonder how long it took to think of that one. Doesn’t this mean that you end up treating as arrears all of the actual arrears PLUS the 1st “on-time” instalment itself??

    #1005
    martin walmsley
    Participant

    Peter – I agree, example 3 is a strange one. So this time the period of award rather than the date of the NTC letter is used to calculate the no. of days/start date. The guidance we have is inconsistent, and all we can do is to make the best decision we feel is possible (not always easy).

    Mark – re the payments of arrears. This is not always straightforward either. Some of the NTC award letters we have been receiving have a “larger payment” (i.e. what we have been advised to treat as arrears), then a very small payment, followed by the normal frequency/amount of instalments. Therefore, are we to assume this “small payment” is also part of the arrears?

    Martin.

    #1006
    RobBox
    Participant

    I have also received the Managers letter.

    Case Study 3 provides the example of a Dept Error and making it non-recoverable. Surely this was only relevant for the transitional period. Now would we not be faced with classifying it as an “other errror” and recoverable?

    I am also assuming that the dealine date of 13.06.03 is a processing deadline – Managers letter date 02.06.03 sets the tone – so any backlog award notices not dealt with by then we not be looked on so favourably? Or am I totally wrong?

    #1007
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Here is another real life case that Amendment 9 does not address:

    A claimant brought in her NTC award letters. One was dated 05 May 2003 & the other dated 23 May 2003.

    On both letters the annual award was for CTC £3436.76 & WTC £3026.82. So no problem there!

    However on page three this is where the fun really started:

    On the 5 May letter for CTC the First Payment was £234.75.

    Then further payments of £266.86 then £266.83 every 4 weeks.

    For WTC: a first payment of £206.75
    then further payments of £115.78.

    Then the letter dated 23 May 03

    CTC: first payment £159.63 followed by payments of £253.53 every 4weeks.

    WTC: first payment £24.81 followed by payments of £243.68 every 4 weeks.

    So use the examples in Amendment 9 (rightly or wrongly) the difference in the claimant’s income is considerably.

    5 May: CTC £66.50 WTC £58.59
    23 May: CTC £71.89 WTC £65.87.

    And is the effective date 12 May or 26 May!!!

    So I phoned the help line & the only useful advice that they could give me was to divide the annual awards by 366 day x 7!

    Which award notice do we use? What amounts do we use? Which effective date? Any body got any ideas.:7:

    #1008
    Anonymous
    Guest

    It certainly doesn’t seem to make a whole lot of sense. I’ve just calc’d using the amendment 9 (and manager’s “Aide Memoire”) method and it does not tally at all.

    I’d be tempted to take the later award as the one to use. Then work it out in accordance with the base method of calc’ing arrears.

    i.e. award start date to award letter date x daily rate. Deduct from award and divide by remaining number of days in the award. That’s if they are weekly paid.

    If they are 4 weekly it’s a bit more complicated (!).

    Too much to go into here this late on a Friday – send me your email address and I’ll send you a gadget for working ’em out.

    Are they 4 weekly or 1 weekly paid?

    p e t e r . c o x @ b a s i l d o n . g o v . u k

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