Bedroom tax regs for forces member

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  • #46114
    julianm
    Participant

    the new regs say the forces member serving away had to be a non dep before they left. What about 17 year olds who join the army. doesn't this mean we won't be able to keep a room for them ?

     

    (8) For the purposes of determining the number of occupiers of the dwelling under paragraph (5), the relevant authority must include any member of the armed forces away on operations who—

    (a)   is the son, daughter, step-son or step-daughter of the claimant or the claimant’s partner;

    (b)  was the claimant’s non-dependant before they became a member of the armed forces away on operations; and

    (c)   intends to resume occupying the dwelling as their home when they cease to be a member of the armed forces away on operations..

    #130105
    Julian Hobson
    Participant

    Not seen them yet – do you have a link to the amendments ? Would like to check out all of them if poss before responding

    #130118
    Julian Hobson
    Participant

    I do hope the LGA and others respond to this robustly.

    ““member of the armed forces away on operations” means a member of the regular forces or the reserve forces (within the meaning of section 374 of the Armed Forces Act 2006) who is absent, while on operations, from the dwelling usually occupied as their home;”;

    So where is the definition of “while on operations”, what does that mean? I also think that the combination of regs here confirms my fear that it is either “bedroom tax” OR “non dep deductions” in such cases and the later would appear to deliver a more punitive result than the bedroom tax would have done for most households.

    To answer your point Julian, the way it is written suggests that you must have been a non dep before going on the operations you are on before your room can be included. I don’t think it would preclude non deps aged 17 joining the army because they are still non deps even though no charge applied. I do however think that is a very practical difficulty for current families where the armed forces member is clearly not a non dep now, you can’t suddenly get an extra room without having been a non dep, and if you arent a non dep now and they won’t be, then this can’t apply can it ????

    I also think the foster carer extra room thing is rubbish as it allows one extra room, not an extra room per foster child. What about my foster carer with three extra rooms and 3 foster children, she will still get the 25% bedroom tax even with this measure. Where is my DHP money for her ? Dwp have now taken it all away !!!

    #130119
    julianm
    Participant

    I think its just part of the great omnishambles (an excellent word I’ve learnt from HB Info). A rushed reg is never good law.

    As regards the young non deps joining up, I’m sure we’ll come across cases where they join the services from being a young person and never have a period as a nondep even if there is no charge. In those cases, no extra room I’d suggest.

    And I agree, away on operations means what – posted aboroad, posted to northern ireland or just in barracks perhaps awaiting posting or based in this country.

    I’d suggest we would want to be as flexible as possible on this in the spirit of the announcement.

    #130120
    cfowkes
    Participant

    Sorry, can anyone point me in the direction of the amended regs please

    Thanks

    #130121
    nick dearnley
    Participant

    I was wondering about ‘…away on operations’ as well. Surely it can’t apply if they’re sat on base/in barracks?

    #130129
    Julian Hobson
    Participant

    I’m sick of this rubbish, I need to reply to two MP enquiries on the Foster carer position and will be including the DWP letter sent to LGA etc about the amending regs and U2 and the full shebang in the hope that somebody can knock some sense into them.

    “Away on operations” means exactly what it says and I don’t think it includes any other deployment, be that guarding buck house, riding a motorbike with a pyramid of other blokes on your back at a summer fete, helping out at the Olympics, basic training, jumping in icy pools of water in norway (not meant to be an exhaustive list) and I’m not being flippant either. This is really important because if the alternative is a non dep deduction or bedroom tax when they are doing all the other stuff that doesn’t amount to “away on operations” which is it, on what basis and what is the financial impact of that ?

    #130130
    Nicky
    Participant

    [quote=nick dearnley]I was wondering about ‘…away on operations’ as well. Surely it can’t apply if they’re sat on base/in barracks?[/quote]

    It must mean that though as otherwise the reg could never apply to anyone:

    you’d be home on leave – a non-dep
    away to barracks – not a non dep
    off to wherever – reg can’t apply as before going off on operations you weren’t a non-dep

    so operations must mean away at base / barracks as well.

    #130131
    nick dearnley
    Participant

    It’s rubbish drafting again – the reg doesn’t give effect to the policy intention. Again the simple inclusion of a definition would have helped, or just leaving out ‘away on operations’. It could also have said ‘was a family member or non-dep’ and that would have solved the 17 year old new recruit problem. The policy intention as I heard it was to ‘exempt’ (I’m growing to hate that term) members of the forces while they are temporarily away from home and would come back on leave etc. The reg is too narrow to do that.

    I don’t believe that gate duty at an RAF base is ‘away on operations’. Deployed to Afghanistan, Iraq or Northern Ireland or any other actual operation, yes.

    #130132
    John Boxall
    Participant

    Brawling in Aldershot/Warminster Pubs??

    Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery. The blossom is blighted, the leaf is withered, the god of day goes down upon the dreary scene, and—and in short you are for ever floored.

    Wilkins Micawber, Ch12 David Copperfield

    #130133
    Julian Hobson
    Participant

    Nicky I take your point as to what it is supposed to mean but as with so much these days it simply doesn’t do it.

    They could have dealt with this so much more easily but have added in a criteria that isn’t about the extra room at all it is about working out when the ND charge applies.

    #130135
    Nicky
    Participant

    Oh I know – my first thought after seeing the ministerial statement was “well good luck drafting that”.

    So your claimant, before deciding whether to tell the council about their son / daughter and their army leave has to make a quick comparison between the cost of a non-dep deduction for whatever period against the benefit of not losing part of their rent for the rest of the year.

    It’s almost like a “better by” situation…

    #130144
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Can some kind soul please post the link to these amendment regs.

    #130146
    kerry edwards
    Participant
    #130147
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Many thanks Kerry

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