CTR advantageous changes

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  • #45702
    chris harvey
    Participant

    Been thinking about how in practical terms we can input scenarios where there is a late advantageous change which for HB purposes we don't want to go back with but for CTR we do. For example if we are notified a non dep moved out 6 months ago, how can we take the non dep off the case for one side and not the other. The only workaround I could think was to set the two sides up on different reference numbers. Even then if we have an income which we want to apply different dates to, you cannot input different values for the same period on the same PIN, so different reference numbers would not solve the problem.

    I can't see how we can do this on Northgate?

    #128604
    Simo
    Participant

    Haven’t seen the CTR stuff- but can you not just still use the ‘use late’ fields for the HB side?

    #128624
    bod
    Participant

    Release notes for “Council Tax Reduction – Claims Maintenance & Report User Guide” [page 21 of 61] states The Notify Start date and the Use Late date fields are not relevant for Council Tax reduction as DMA regulations do not apply. If data is entered in these fields a warning message will be given.”

    #128625
    Simo
    Participant

    what i’m saying is, in the example given, can’t you use the HB fields as you would have done previously?

    #128626
    chris harvey
    Participant

    I am still not following this, whether you use these fields or not you need to remove the non dep from the claim and it will recalculate the HB and CTR without the non dep charge. Similarly if there is a reduction in income that you don’t want to go back with for HB but you must for CTR then you must change the income from the earlier date to get the CTR to calc correctly but it will also increase the HB which is what you don’t want. I cannot see that you can enter different incomes or non deps on the case for each side of the case.
    Using another example say someone tells you their income reduced 6 months ago and they forgot to tell us. For HB we would want to apply the lower income from now (advantageous change rule) but for CTR we should go back and apply the lower income from when it reduced 6 months ago (assuming you are following the default scheme, but even if you are not you must do this for pensioners anyway). How can you input on NG different dates for the same income. Even if you set up the CTR on a separate case ref, you can’t have different incomes agaist the same PIN.
    I cannot see how it can be done? Despite what NG say in the guide if you have income set from a particular date, mass calc will apply it from that date irrespective of the date fields entered in the period tab.

    #128627
    Simo
    Participant

    The fields ‘Notify start’ and ‘Notify end’, together with ‘Use late’ fields, were introduced several years ago for the beneficial changes rules and allowed you to treat HB and CTB differently, so I’m assuming you can still use them for HB

    #128640
    bod
    Participant

    The Northgate “Council Tax Reduction – Claims Maintenance & Report User Guide” does state these fields will remain available for HB as they are now but are irrelevant for CTR. So changes will often be effective from different dates for HB & CTR.

    #128642
    chris harvey
    Participant

    But if one of the income codes is changed to an earlier date, the system does not have wondrous powers to know that we want it to read the income start date as a different (later) date for the HB side. Not sure if I am explaining this very well. The “use late” and other fields on the period tab will not change the way the system reads the income start date against an income code, there is no way it can know what we want it to do because it does not have the data to do it.
    Has anyone tried to replicate this on test, I cannot find a way to use different income start dates even using the use date fields on the HB side, it still the reads the income from the earlier date, whenever a calc is generated. It doesn’t know I want it to use a later date because it does not hold that later date against the income anywhere on the system.

    #128643
    bod
    Participant

    But you’ll use the same date of change for HB & CTR (as you do now for HB & CTB) but the jobs that calculate the effective date of change for HB & CTR will differ in that HB will look at any “late notified dates” whereas the CTR won’t as they’re not applicable for CTR. Different jobs will have different parameters.

    At least that’s how I’m understanding the way it’ll work.

    #128645
    Simo
    Participant

    Those same fields are there on the income screens allowing you to record the notified dates and, by ticking or not the Use late date field, decide which date to use.

    #128647
    bod
    Participant

    [quote=Simo]Those same fields are there on the income screens allowing you to record the notified dates and, by ticking or not the Use late date field, decide which date to use.[/quote]

    Yes, I agree, those notified date fields will be all but invisible to CTR as they’re irrelevant but will be relevant to HB calculations.

    #128652
    chris harvey
    Participant

    Thanks Guys, you have convinced me how this might work. I will get this tested and let you know if we have any problems.

    #129663
    billmurray
    Participant

    Hi guy’s,

    can I reactivate this thread.

    CTS scheme allows 21 days for reporting of advantageous changes.

    As HB is still 1 month, what happens if a change is reported 22 – 30 days?

    Example:

    Income reduces 01 May 2013, meaning claimant will receive more benefit.

    Claimant notifies the change on 28 May 2013.

    HB is within a month, so effective date is used and we reassess from monday following date of change.

    For CTS as only allows 21 days, we should use the notification date and reassess from Monday following.

    How do we action this on Northgate?

    Previously we could have used the late notified tick, but as it no longer applies to CTS claims, I cannot think of any way to assess.

    I’ve asked Northgate and am still awaiting a response?

    Thanks

    Bill M

    #129668
    Simo
    Participant

    Having spoken to my colleague, the 21 days is irrelevant in this situation. It doesn’t matter when they tell us, the award should be changed retrospectively.
    The 21 days gives you the opportunity to FINE somebody for not telling you within the required time frame, if you so decide.

    #129672
    billmurray
    Participant

    Unfortunately in this case it has specifically been written into the scheme about notifing advantageous changes within 21 days.

    we still therefore have the issue about late notified changes.

    If we are told more than 1 month after the change, we can allign it to HB and use the notification date as the effective date on the system. Not correct, but works.

    My issue is the short period between 22 and 30 days only.

    Thanks

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