Terms & Conditions

[Anonymous]

Morning All,

This is one of those where everyone thinks they know the right answer, but in practise, people seem to be doing different things!

Claimant was a Council Tenant. He died on a Sunday. He remains liable for the rent for at least the following week.

Regs seem to say that we should terminate the claim on the day after he died (the monday) because he has already had benefit for the week in which his circumstances changed…. However, it’s being strongly argued that the day the circs change is actually the monday, and we should therefore allow benefit to the following monday…

All suggestions gratefully accepted!

[David]

My thoughts are these:

The primary legislation (SSCBA s130) states that to be entitled to HB a claimant must occupy a his home. I don’t think you can say that is the case if he dies during the day (certainly not all day!)

HB Reg 79(8) says that where there is a change that ends entitlement, it shall take effect on first day of benefit week following benefit week change actually occurs

So HB ends from the following day in this case

[Kevin D]

My first reaction was to agree with David, but a couple of interesting points spring to mind…. What is the date of change, if:

1) a clmt’s last day of work is on the Sunday – finishes at 4.00pm; or

2) a clmt’s last day of work is on the Sunday – finishes precisely at midnight.

Funnily enough, this is not entirely unrelated to previous threads about the point at which IS/JSA/IB/SDA ceases for the purpose of HBRs 77 & 78 ).

Ohhh – you’d like a definitive answer?? Sheesh! 😈

Regards

[seanosul]

[quote:7f7a0b7125=”David”]My thoughts are these:

The primary legislation (SSCBA s130) states that to be entitled to HB a claimant must occupy a his home. I don’t think you can say that is the case if he dies during the day (certainly not all day!)

HB Reg 79(8) says that where there is a change that ends entitlement, it shall take effect on first day of benefit week following benefit week change actually occurs

So HB ends from the following day in this case[/quote:7f7a0b7125]

There is nothing in the regulations about occupying the home for a half day. This therefore seems to suggest that as the claimant was alive on the day until he died, he occupied the home.

I can see the similarities to the extended payment thread.

[Anonymous]

It was held in R(S)1/66 in the context of absence from the UK that a person was present on the day he left. I suppose the same princple should applies to absence from this world ie you are still here on the day you go.

[David]

I would still argue that death is different to the other scenarios discussed. It is certainly a change that ends entitlement & I think 79(8) is clear. Looking at the Shelter guide, I see that the authors agree with my take on this (para 3.42)

[Kevin D]

Given this some more thought.

For CTAX purposes, the death of a person is treated as if there is no occupancy on that day. On that basis, for CTB, it is inevitable that the change takes effect hand in hand with CTAX due to the liablity change.

As there is no specific reg covering the termination of HB following “death”, the it seems logical that the change is “occupancy”. If that is correct (and I’m not saying it necessarily is), then it is clear that the date of change must be the first full day of non-occupancy – in line with the CD cited by Stainsby. So, I suppose the crux is whether or not death is treated any differently in the cold light of law.

Regards

[peterdelamothe]

Where a person is temp absent from home, the day they leave should be ignored and the day they return ditto i.e. if they leave on the Monday at 8am, the clock starts ticking on the Tuesday because they are occupying the dwelling part of the day on the Monday. Although there is no HB decision on this, the decision suggested by Stainsby is very persuasive in my opinion. A “day” is 24 hours and as the legislation does not clarify whether the first day should include part days, I am almost certain that the Commissioners would confirm this without much discussion should it get to them.

Therefore, I see no reason why the same logic should not apply to the deceased? Its just a change in circs surely? Even if rather an important one to the person affected!!!! It is also surely a very reasonable policy in the circs?

[seanosul]

[quote:f33f2bce3b=”David”]I would still argue that death is different to the other scenarios discussed. It is certainly a change that ends entitlement & I think 79(8) is clear. Looking at the Shelter guide, I see that the authors agree with my take on this (para 3.42)[/quote:f33f2bce3b]

Well if the SHAC book says it is so – hmmm. See the extended payments thread for the trouble that particular books opinion on extended payments caused my current authority.

[David]

Sean,
I agree that this book can be misleading at times – I only referred to it as I seemed to be in a minority of one!

The posters so far would pay to the second Monday after the death – would you similarly pay claimant for a further week after leaving the area on a Sunday because their rental liability ended on that day?

I’ll get the Adelphi take on the death issue unless in the meantime I’m otherwise persuaded!

[Hilly]

Perhaps notification letters could be amended so that claimants know the most convenient days to die?

8)

[seanosul]

Even if you did see it in that way:-

Under old regs it is a rental change where they are not liable for the rest of the week – ends Sunday. New Claim from Monday.

It is a a change of circs which is also a rental change – therefore from the start of the week.

Under new regs

They are liable at the new address from the Monday so you pay that address (even if zero liability means you pay zero rent).

[peterdelamothe]

Great idea Cougarboy. Although naturally its vital the claimant advises the LA in writing five days beforehand too of the impeding change.

[David]

Regarding this, I asked the Adelphi their view which is brief…

‘I can clarify that if the claimants date of death is on a Sunday then HB entitlement would end the next Monday, i.e the following day.’

This may not persuade others who have posted but at least it reinforces my opinion!

[Kate1]

Just ‘resurrecting’ this thread –
My mum was a council tenant on housing benefit and sadly (very recenty) died on a Sunday. Her housing benefit has been terminated from the following day. Having read the above posts, I am toying with an appeal to get an extra weeks benefit. Are there any LA’s out there that treat the change as Monday and pay an extra week ? Would others go for an appeal or just take the hit and pay full rent ?? Don’t want to be branded a vexatious litigant.

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