Terms & Conditions

[Anonymous]

HI Can anyone help please, we are preparing an appeal on a case where fraud have been involved. the OP has been calculated as over £40,000 by the assessment team ( all HB back to 2001 less write offs from OE OPs) Fraud have argued that the OP calc is wrong and that we should recover every penny ever paid to the clmt even if we had previously written it off on the grounds that she made a fraudulent claim and so was never entitled to any of the money paid to her.

The are referring us to a decision ( bot comissioners but a somebody v someone type decision) that says that in a fraud case every penny ever paid to the clmt should be recovered regardless of any WOs etc. Can anyone help with this?

[seanosul]

They could try under Section 7 of the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 but an order would have to be made.

[Kevin D]

I was tempted to just jump in, but more info would help first.

1) What was the cause of the overpayment?

2) How / why do you think there are periods of official error?

3) If there really are periods of official error, how come they aren’t recoverable on the grounds that the clmt could reasonably have been expected to realise etc? (Especially given that it is apparently a fraud case).

In terms of a direct answer, I’m not aware of any HB/CTB specific case law that REQUIRES an LA to recover an overpayment. But, more info may help in thinking laterally.

Regards

[markp]

In short, because Kevin beat me to it, what was the Fraud and what were the official errors?

The answers to those will determine whether or not the OE OP will fall under recoverable LA error OP or not.

Do I know what I'm doing? The jury's out on that........................

[Stalbansbenefits]

I can kinda see where your Fraud Team are coming from. If the test is whether the claimant could have reasonably been expected to realise that an overpayment was taking place, then if the claim was fraudulent, then the customer would have realised [i:256d6a99dd]everything[/i:256d6a99dd] they received was an overpayment.

Or, to put it another way, if I have £100,000 stashed under my mattress, I know whatever benefit I receive I am not entitled to, regardless of the nuances of the calculation.

[Anonymous]

the fraud is undeclared property in another town, undeclared major capital and not declaring that she purchased the rental property and then fabricated rent payments for 2 years in respect of a property that she owned.

OE OPs occured on 2 occasions between 2001 – 2006 on both occasions it was felt that they were OE and at the time ( ie before any of the fraud came to light) it was felt that she could not reasonably have known. They concerned the level of rent paid but now we know that she owned the prop anyway. Given the level of organised deliberate fraud can we revise that decision as we now feel that she could have known as she would have been aware of no entitlement to benefit at all????

[markp]

To my mind no question then.

All the OP is recoverable from claimant as capital is involved (Stalbans analogy seems spot on).

Do I know what I'm doing? The jury's out on that........................

[Author]

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