Terms & Conditions

[LindaL]

Claimant made claim for ground rent on caravan he owns, but did not qualify because of income (he works). However, caravan is on a site that closes for 6 weeks in the winter. He has moved into bed and breakfast accommodation and has claimed HB.

So, if we treat B&B as main residence and include caravan as capital, chances are he won’t qualify. Is there any way the caravan can be disregarded, because he cannot live there through no fault of his own. Claimant is single dad, looking after 14 year old daughter, so would like to help him, if poss.

Any advice would be appreciated.

[Darren W]

The caravan is a second home that is also an intended home therefore it can be argued that it can be disregarded for 26 weeks under Schedule 6 27.

[Anonymous]

Nice try, Darren, but it doesn’t work:

[quote:5301879ca1]Any premises which the claimant intends to occupy as his home, [b:5301879ca1]and[/b:5301879ca1] in respect of which he is taking steps to obtain possession [b:5301879ca1]and[/b:5301879ca1] has sought legal advice, or has commenced legal proceedings, with a view to obtaining possession[/quote:5301879ca1]

(my emphasis)

[Anonymous]

“Premises” means real estate to use the American expression. A caravan is merely a personal posession in the same way as a car would be.

The caravan should be disregarded permanently

[Anonymous]

I’m not sure if that helps, either. Although Stainsby is right to say that the caravan is a chattle rather than “real estate”, it also constitutes the claimant’s usual home. Is this not a case of temporary absence from the home (albeit enforced by circumstances beyond the claimant’s control)? And if it is temporary absence, how can you justify paying for the B&B accommodation?

[LindaL]

I don’t think we can treat this caravan as a possession like a car. We don’t know how much the caravan is worth, but they seem to be worth anything from £15,000 to £45,000+. It is not a touring caravan, more a mobile home.

[Anonymous]

So what do you want to treat it as?

[Anonymous]

I remember a discussion on here some time ago about a motor launch that the claimant had hired out to someone. Stainsby observed correctly that a boat cannot be “premises” because the owner has no stake of ownership in any land or water that it is currently standing/floating on. The same goes for a mobile home – you don’t own the plot underneath it, you just own the structure. So it isn’t premises.

In the earlier discussion I thought, and I also think in relation to this discussion, that just because an item is not “premises” it does not follow that it must by default be a personal possession. For example, a savings account is not “premises” but nor is it a personal possession in the way that term is meant to be understood for benefits purposes.

It may be that a static caravan is capital of a third kind – neither premises nor personal possessions. It does not have a face value for cashing in, so it’s not a money-type asset. But where do you draw the line between personal possessions and capital that is held as an investment? A painting hanging on the living room wall is a personal possession, the same painting in a bank vault is perhaps an item of capital.

I would suggest that a personal possession means something that you own for the purpose of personal utility or enjoyment – your car, your furniture, your grandmother’s diamond engagement ring, your six-foot-wide TV and Dolby surround sound home cinema entertainment system etc.

I don’t know where this caravan fits in. I’ll do some research.

[LindaL]

We are a seaside resort and in the same vein, some people may own a beach hut. Some of the beach huts in Frinton are worth £20,000+ – I certainly don’t think this is a possession as such. Should we ignore a beach hut that is worth £25,000 if a claimant wants to claim benefit? They sell like hot cakes here and their value increases every year.

Going back to the caravan, I know its not real estate, but as it’s his normal home shouldn’t it be taken into account as a capital asset? If he had qualified for benefit on the caravan and then moved into B&B for 6 weeks, how can we just ignore the caravan?

I want to help this claimant, but also want to know the correct regs that apply because this will undoubtedly occur again; as stated, we are a coastal LA with about 6 coastal resorts. I look forward to seeing what Peter comes up with. Thanks for all your help.

[Anonymous]

Sorry to repeat myself, but I am strongly of the opinion that you have to treat this as a temporary absence case. The B&B is not his usual home, the caravan is.

[LindaL]

To treat a case as temporary absence, there must still be a liability on the home they are absent from. Although he cannot stay in caravan for 6 weeks, he is still liable for ground rent. So, if he goes to B&B and claims HB, then wouldn’t this be HB on two homes and he doesn’t qualify for this.

[Anonymous]

Linda – yes, that’s the conclusion that I’m drawn to. I can understand you wanting to help the claimant, especially as this is not his fault, but I can’t think of a way to pay for the B&B…maybe Peter or some other Wise One will come back with an idea.

[Author]

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