joint tenants

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  • #33952
    cam82
    Participant

    has anyone had time to read te DWP trainer manual. not sure if i am reading it right , but they give an example about joint tenants. it says if a joint tenant has exclusivity of two rooms, they get the two room rate. i thought this was wrong and they should get the 1 room rate rather than the shared room rate. any suggestions

    #94607
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Where about in the manual is this?

    #94608
    cam82
    Participant

    A trainer brief was included as part of the DWP communication toolkit. the example of joint tenants was concerning Bill and Jill.

    #94609
    Anonymous
    Guest

    The Bill & Jill example re-iterates the previous DWP guidance discussed in this thread –

    https://hbinfo.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10609

    A joint tenant gets the shared rate, unless they need two beds (if for example they have a non dep) in which case they get 2 bedrooms.

    #94610
    daveyboy
    Participant

    My understanding was that if a joint tenant had exclusive use of 2 or more rooms, they got the 1 bedroom rate. From the GM:

    2.50 Single claimants aged 25 years and over, care leavers under 22 and couples with no dependent children, will be entitled to the rate for a one-bedroom property, eg a one-bedroom flat or studio or other kind of self-contained accommodation, provided they actually rent a property of at least this size.

    2.51 However, if people in this category choose to live in a property where they do not have [b:da65d07261]either [/b:da65d07261]exclusive use of two or more rooms, or exclusive use of one room, a bathroom and toilet and a kitchen or facilities for cooking, they will be entitled to only the shared LHA rate.

    #94611
    peterdelamothe
    Keymaster

    “A joint tenant gets the shared rate, unless they need two beds (if for example they have a non dep) in which case they get 2 bedrooms”.

    May I just point out that this is DWP opinion and not necessarily the law. It is up to each LA to decide if joint tenants are entitled to the shared rate or one bedroom rate.

    #94612
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Peter – Indeed my quote re-iterates DWP Guidance and nothing more than that. There is a good argument to be made that joint tenants share exclusive use of a dwelling and would not be subject to the “shared” rate.

    Daveyboy – I think your point is along the same lines. The DWP reckon that a joint tenant does not have either exclusive use of two rooms, or exclusive use of one plus the exclusive use of a bathroom, kitchen and toilet – hence the shared rate (which is debateable)

    However if one of the joint tenants left then the remaining one would then be ok for the one room rate.

    Incidentally (but importantly) the finalised version of Regulation 13D(2)(a)(ii) differs from the draft version in that it does not apply to people without exclusive use of 2 beds or 1 bed+KBT, if they are entitled to the Severe Disability Premium or they are Certain Care Leavers. So, as I understand it, a Severely Disabled or Care Leaver Joint tenant would get the one room rate rather than the shared. I don’t think the guidance reflects this.

    #94613
    seanosul
    Participant

    [quote:374c155cfd=”peterdelamothe”]
    May I just point out that this is DWP opinion and not necessarily the law. It is up to each LA to decide if joint tenants are entitled to the shared rate or one bedroom rate.[/quote:374c155cfd]

    Unless the DWP change their guidance – although not the law this will be the practice, as you are well aware Peter there is a very big difference between what the law says and what LAs do, look at overpayments.

    #94614
    peterdelamothe
    Keymaster

    I agree with you to an extent about LHA but not about overpayments Sean. Look at underlying ent for instance – I think the majority of LA’s accept this is not subject to the one month time limit ..despite DWP guidance. The fact that DWP have addressed this by making a change in the Welfare Reform Act Act speaks volumes?

    Ironically, the point on overpayments on which HBINFO and DWP are in full agreement on (the need to give one month before making a decision from whom to recover) is not followed by many LA’s so its all swings etc.

    On the other hand, many of these differences of opinion are being considered before the change has come in ..which is very different than from other previous changes.

    The difference between the shared and one bed rate can be up to £3,000 per year in extra benefit (based on the figures I have seen) and will affect large numbers of claimants. Thats well worth a legal challenge (Shelter HBINFO members may want to take note!).

    #94615
    seanosul
    Participant

    [quote:da619bf766=”peterdelamothe”]
    Ironically, the point on overpayments on which HBINFO and DWP are in full agreement on (the need to give one month before making a decision from whom to recover) is not followed by many LA’s so its all swings etc.

    [/quote:da619bf766]

    That is not in the overpayment guide.

    #94616
    cfowkes
    Participant

    I am reading through the actual regs and they seem to read that if a couple with no children has exclusive use of 2 rooms they can have the one bedroom self contained accommodation LHA rate not the shared.

    If they have exlusive use of two rooms and a non-dep then they can have the two room rate.

    It appears from postings that some are of the opinion that the shared rate applies even if the customer has exclusive use of two rooms?

    What are we settled on?

    #114496
    Dawn Cove
    Participant

    Hello all, just a quick question – 3 Joints tenants in a property, all entitled to SDP, shared room rate or 1 bedroom rate – I have managed to convince myself boths ways so far!

    Thanks :~

    #114497
    Andreas
    Participant

    If they are entitled to the SDP they cannot be restricted to the shared rate; they should each get at least the 1-room rate.

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