Terms & Conditions

[Anonymous]

HB R 49 (5)
Does this Reg ever get used???,
in a prominent London authority there are in excess of 15% claimants that are directors of limited companies, these companies own large portfolios of properties non of these claimants are shareholders [u:7b8ea4dcd3]nor do they get any remuneration for being directors so they claim!!!.[/u:7b8ea4dcd3]
they appear do be hiding their capital under the shadow of a limited company whilst they benefit from public funds enjoying the best of both.

To top it all off these claimants are renting from close family these houses were purchased only for their occupation, the claimants settle the mortgage payments through an account that they have not disclosed to the LA

Authorities do not seem concerned to check out whether claimants are directors of limited companies (save only in relation to being engaged as a self employed earner in relation to the business)

Is there a reason why La s do not check to see if a claimant is a director of a limited company, Companies House Direct online has a Director search option it is easy to use and available to all just enter a name and the results show the name D.O.B and all directorships the person may have + Properties + Loans.

Ive approached one LA but they do not seem to be concerned, it would appear that don’t mind to waste public funds.

Does any one know what I am talking about, have you experienced this???

[Kevin D]

Yep – you have a point.

I suspect, it’s because most LAs haven’t identified it as a problem. For those that have, they probably don’t appreciate the wider significance.

Also, some LAs don’t do Land Reg searches in PT cases. In my experience, there are an increasing number of PT cases where the true L/L (or owner) is being deliberately hidden to try to sidestep HBRs 8 / 9 / 12(2) etc. Given that background, it would seem prudent for all PT cases to have Land Reg searches done.

While on a fairly recent contract, a Land Reg search revealed the clmt owned property worth over £200,000 – this had not been disclosed (even though the form asked the question). On other claims, searches have increasingly revealed connections with family members that have subsequently had a direct bearing on HB decision making.

Regards

[peterdelamothe]

“in excess of 15% claimants that are directors of limited companies”

Sounds a lot to me. This entire area is something that needs to be looked into. On the other hand, the Commissioners decided that if a commercial company is liable to pay the rent and fails to do so, a Director of that company can be considered the liable person and receive HB (much to my disgust).

[Anonymous]

peter

where can get hold of that decision??

[Anonymous]

Kevin

I think that a claim for HB/CTB should be treated similar in the way bank accounts are opened.

I would carry out a LR search , Directors search and a search on the Hunter System (provided by Equifax) which instantly reveals any applications for mortgages, loans, personal finance or credit cards and would reveal details of income stated on all applications.

we are in a modern world authorities cannot be seen to rely on solely on information provided by claimants, quite often these shrewd claimants with plenty of property can forge every single document to a perfect standard.

I think authorities should be driving towards using information readily sitting on government databases and using their own sources of information.

[Kevin D]

There are two ways of locating this…

1) search for “Peter’s favourite CD”… (although, that would probably get you barred from the board….. :twisted:)

2) the other option is to click on the link below:

new.hbinfo.org.com/comdecs/ch_3013_2003.doc

Personally, I’d plump for option 2…..

[petedavies]

At the risk of stating the obvious it is well worth looking into your claimant’s roles as directors and their relationship to the shareholders.

Wild guess but: (a) The companies are all so small that they are exempt from producing full accounts & (b) There are 2 or 3 shareholders.

Write to your claimant and ask them to confirm:

(a) What duties they undertake in their role as a director. – there are a number of legal requirements.
(b) What, if any, arrangements they have made to cover/insure themselves in the event of a claim against them by the company/shareholders.
(c) Ask them to list all appointments (director/secretary) they hold in all companies (whether in the U.K. or abroad) and the same for shares or to make an explicit statement to the effect that there are none (I know this is asked on A/Fs but it is suprising how many people suddenly “remember” things when put in a position of making an explicit statement.
(d) Get them to provide a copy of the company’s accounts – are director’s emoluments listed as an expense?

It is also worth grovelling to your legal/fraud dep’t to blag a bit of time in LexusNexus if they have it. This can be a wonderfully illuminating source of information!

Finally it is also worth looking critically at the benefit application form. There is a worrying number of LAs who ask something along the lines of

“Are you self-employed? If not go to the next question.”
Problem is the question relating to appointments is hidden in the self-employed bit. Problem is you do not need to be self-employed to be a director.

[Author]

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