over 65’s non-deps

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  • #20052
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Can someone help me understand over 65’s non dep deductions a little better. Sorry to sound a bit thick, I may have missed something, but I am certainly confused. Any help is greatly appreciated.
    Is the anniversary date the anniversary of the last effective date of the decision, or the date the LA made the decision? In reg 22 of the PC regs at 11 it states the date of the LA decision for a and b and then the entitlement date for c.
    A non dep is resident and the non dep deduction is £17 and the decision is made in Aug 03 eff Aug 03. On 101003 the non deps wage increases to a deduction of £47.75. This is not applied until the anniversary date of Aug 04.
    However, on 211003 the non dep ceases work and receives JSA. The lower non dep deduction of £7.40 is applied from 271003 in accordance with Reg68
    Then he starts back at work on 011103 at a deduction of £47.75. Is this applied form the anniversary date of the decision made in Aug 03 i.e Aug 04 or the decision in Oct 03 eff Oct 04?
    In future years, does it become the anniversary of the last decision made?

    #1859
    Julian Hobson
    Participant

    this is further complicated when you consider the abolition of Benefit Periods. Which decsion date will we use where a decision has been made to supercede the earlier decision and extend the BP. If it is the original decision date eg 01/08/02 the anniversary is 01/08/03 which will be before the 06/10/03 and before the change happened ?

    #1860
    david kearney
    Participant

    my reading is that the anniversary date will remain constant throughout the life of the claim, while there will be an anniversary date prior to the commencement of the scheme for some claims, no changes will be effected until the first anniversary date after the new rules have come into being. in joanees example non beneficial changes will be made every August based on the latest situation

    #1861
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Ive just found the effective dates are clarified in the questions and answers log on the DWP site. On the external questions of 040603 at Q 35.:6:

    #1862
    peterdelamothe
    Keymaster

    Sorry, but they are not clear to me and DWP are producing a paper on this issue this week.

    I think the intention is that the anniversary date is one year from the last decision made prior to Oct 2003. Fair enough. But this will often mean a different date for HB and CTB. It also means finding out the decision date from the last LA if the pensioner moves. It does not co-ordinate with the RO referral date (naturally, that would make thingsfar too easy) either at 52 weeks or for overaccommodation…. I could go but it is the summer holiday season.

    #1863
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I have now received a new Dear Benefits Manager letter.

    The idea of ‘aniversary dates’ for taking non dep deductions into account have been scrapped.

    New legislation will be introduced shortly which will mean that:

    A non dep deduction will not be taking into account for a period of 26 weeks where the claimant is over 65 and the change occurs after 6th October 2003 and the change would mean the claimant receives less benefit.

    If the claimant would get more benefit then the change occurs immediately.

    If you would like a copy of the letter please email me 😯

    #1864
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Yes, we have read that dear Benefits Manager letter with interest too.

    Our first thought, and that of our software suppliers was – jolly good. On reflection, however, we are not so sure. Leaving aside the confusion which may be caused to some with the paragraph on “normal change of circs rules”, we are actually a bit concerned that two of the “three big advantages” may not, in fact, be achieved. Our understanding was that, despite its complexity, at least the Anniversary date would consolidate all the changes and one level of ND deduction would then apply. The revised arrangement suggests that will not be the case, I.E. we will have to map each adverse change with a 26 week time delay. So, (an actual case from last month) e.g. a non-dep, looking for work moves to our area 27 year old on Jsa, she moves in with Gran, ten weeks later she secures employment – so, all other things being equal, a low deduction applies after 26 weeks and a higher one kicks in 36 weeks after the move in (26 weeks after employment). Previously we thought we would check, with Gran at the Anniversary date, as to what the current position is , assess the deduction and issue the decision. Now we will simply check that the non-dep is still there because we will be issuing a decision based on the facts as they used to be knowing that in ten weeks we are to supersede with the facts as we know them to be. Will advantage (i) and (ii) really be achieved by this?
    Are we also correct in thinking that our software will simply have to live with the resulting mismatch during the 26 week period when CTB is increased (when the C-tax liability increases immediately the non-dep moves in and the 25% discount is lost), while no non-dep deduction applies?

    #1865
    peterdelamothe
    Keymaster

    in HB and CTB is that they impact on entitlement in more than just a statutory deduction e.g. under occupation and the single person discount. We nearly had a situation where a pensioner would have better off by having a working adult move in; and for up to a year too. Explaining that and the impact on Council Tax liability would have been fun (for those who like to confuse customers).

    From an admin point of view, the only really workable change is to disregard non-deps for pensiones but that is very expensive of course. This is intended to be a half-way house.

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