Terms & Conditions

[keith j]

Extract from MIS Guide:-Stats 124 (Fraud part)

32f: Number of investigations relating to offences against other
DWP administered benefits, enter the number of cases
recorded in 32b when the investigation related to offences
against other DWP administered benefits not included in 32c, 32d
or 32e.
Note: Items 32b to 32f should not be completed until after
Primary Legislation has been changed to enable LAs to
investigate national benefits alongside HB and CTB. Guidance
will be issued in the future specifying when this change has been
made and when these items should start being captured.

Anyone any ideas of what we are supposed to be recording and when we begin? 😕

[Anonymous]

🙂

Hi Keith,

Checked this with my Counter Fraud Team Leader when I started completing this section of Stats 124 who confirms it is tied into to proposed changes following the Howell judgement.

Once the primary legislation is in place to allow HB/CTB Counter Fraud Investigators to take on DWP benefit cases we will have to record and report these cases separately.

I’ve no information on timescale though I’m sure someone else may have.

[keith j]

Thanks Dave.
Am I right in thinking that these cases will be specifically investigated as well as HB/CTB, and it won’t be a case of any “knock-on” effect as a result of HB/CTB only investigations?

[Anonymous]

Hi Keith,

Yes but only in cases where there is also HB/CTB interest – that is my understanding. It will also allow wider access to information than previous but will still not solve some of the delays as we will still have to wait for DWP to calculate their overpayment which can take some time……

[Anonymous]

The proposed changes are part of the Welfare Reform Bill which you can find on the DWP website.

As far as timescales are concerned – I am led to believe that it will probably not be until next April (i.e. 2007)

[jmembery]

From the DWP;

“Items 32b to 32f, they should not be answered until after Primary Legislation has been changed to enable local authorities to investigate national benefits alongside HB and CTB. This is explained in the 2006/07 MIS Guide.”

[RobBox]

Strange email from DWP this morning?

Confirms that 39b should still be interventions “commenced” as HBSD/IAD scan will pick up info on “completed” ones.

But 39c goes on to ask for % of annual intervention target acheived and explains it as 39b/39a x 100 ???? I thought target is now on “completed”, or maybe not.

I am now even more confused? I assumed it was a mis-print and put number of interventions completed on my 124………wrong again!

[Anonymous]

Rob

I have queried this anomaly with DWP – still awaiting a reply.

[jmembery]

Yes, I phoned the DWP and pointed out that dividing the number started by the target for completed gives a meaningless result.

They agreed but could not explain why they were asking for it.

My concern is that the resulting figure could make it look like the targets are too easy to achieve and result in a large increase for next year

[Anonymous]

We queried this with Claire Mitton, and this is the response we recieved

[i:cf9b4ce766]We have an agreement with the software suppliers not to make changes to stats 124 in advance of the 100% scan being introduced next year (this scan will mean that Las will no longer to have to complete the stats forms). The circular which announced the April 2006 changes (A7 2006) covered this – the data for that performance measure will be collected by the HBSD/IAD scan each month and reported back to Las. In the meantime your software may still be producing the data for the old version of the measure but if it isn’t you need not report against it. [/i:cf9b4ce766]

Don’t know if this helps!!!

[keith j]

Certainly does, I’d missed the Stats124 bit. So what exactly do we have to fill in, and with what figures? I think I’m even more unsure than I was!!

[Anonymous]

So where in A7 does it not to fill it in

para 21 of A7 says

[i:ab36fab3b5]We will not be making any changes to the HB/CTB MIS Guide Stats 124 data requirements for this measure. Instead the data will be extracted from the monthly Housing Benefit Security Division/Information Analysis Division (HBSD/IAD) 100% scan. Reports will be returned to LAs with a summary of their performance information in time for completion of their annual self-assessments.[/i:ab36fab3b5]

An email from DWP says authorities should continue to submit commenced figure as previous years

( going 4 a lie down now in a dark room)

[keith j]

As per Claire Mitton above :-” In the meantime your software may still be producing the data for the old version of the measure but if it isn’t you need not report against it.” …..not sure I understand it though, would welcome any translation.

[chris harvey]

I thought I understood this, but reading these posts makes me have some self doubts. As I see it last year we had a stats measure and a PM that were the same. How many interventions were commenced as a % of the interventions target – this target being set out in a circular for each LA. This year we have the same stats measure in the 124 return, the only difference being that the target figure is higher this year. This target is the target for interventions commenced for stats purposes but is also the target for interventions completed for PM’s.
PM’s are usually collected through the stats returns but because the new revised 2006 PM for interventions completed (rather than commenced) was proposed too late to change the stats124, then this PM count is to be collected through the monthly scan.
The responses from the DWP tell me that they are not going to use the stats figures so if your software still produces the old figures then fine report them on the return but if they no longer collect them because they have switched to interventions completed to comply with the new PM then you need not report any figures in the stats return.
Would have been much simpler if the DWP had said – ignore question 39 on the stats 124 as we are collecting interventions data from the monthly scans instead.

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