Terms & Conditions

[emmadring]

Am currently looking at a case where we have basically made a LTAHAW decision.
The claimant admits that the man is her boyfriend, but disputes the date he moved in. The definition of couple – unmarried couple living together as husband and wife – does not imply the necessity of a shared household, and CPAG suggests that the issue ‘will involve consideration of, but is not determined by, the question of whether they share a household (p.17 19th ed)

In this case the claimant admitted in an IUC that the man drives to her house after work most nights, stays late and then walks back to his parents house after drinking some wine. He returns to collect the car in the morning and drives to work. He stays with the claimant most weekends. They have joint finances going back a no. of years.

Do others think I could make an LT decision even if I accept (which I don’t) that he sleeps at his parents most week nights? If pushed on the ‘shared household’ aspect I think there are grounds for saying that they do occupy the same household as he spends the majority of the time at her house, except working and sleeping.

Oh, he apparently moved in on right after the IUC and she is now pregnant with his child ❗

Any thoughts?

[Kevin D]

If it is true (& the scepticism is understandable) that the “partner” sleeps most nights at his parents, I think it would be very very difficult to argue that he is part of his girlfriend’s household.

Usual things to look at would be electoral register / address(es) on bank statements etc / which address is any of the “partner’s” vehicle registered at (I *think* it’s an offence not to inform DVLA of the correct address). None of the above is in itself necessarily determinative, but helps to build the picture.

Regards

[emmadring]

2 vehicles are in claimant’s name but the partner bought both of them for her and is a named driver and also pays the insurance with his wages. No different address given for the partner, and declaration made to insurance company that he is her ‘common law spouse’

He is at his parents for the electoral roll and has used his parent’s address for job applications etc.

I htinkI will stick with LT and if it gets to appeal (which I’m sure it will) I will comment on the household aspect.

[Hilly]

If he has another verifiable address you can’t treat him as LT. When they appeal they will win.

Even if he doesn’t sleep at his parents at all the fact that they will confirm he has a room there and he is on the electoral role there means that you cannot prove LT.

8)

[Anonymous]

[quote:8258a896c1]declaration made to insurance company that he is her ‘common law spouse’
[/quote:8258a896c1]

So they are H & W for Insurance purposes but not for HB? mmmm 😈

[emmadring]

mmmmm – yes thats what I though!

I don’t see that the electoral roll really proves anything one way or another. I do think I could still make a LT decision even if I were to accept that he sleeps at his parents house – it’s a matter of ‘dwelling normally occupied’ isn’t it? He is a member of the household in the home he normally occupies. He stays with his g/f at weekends and until late in the night pretty much every evening and he works all day. I think it is at least arguable that he normally occupies her dwelling as his home rather than his parent’s house.

[Hilly]

You’re looking at Living Together as [b:3056b0bafe]Husband and Wife[/b:3056b0bafe] how many married couples would have that kind of arrangement? He has an address elsewhere that he can verify, you cannot treat them as LT.

[Julian Hobson]

This might help

https://hbinfo.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6182&highlight=ltahaw

Its not as cut and dried as some might suggest.

I suggest that the first step is to establish the facts in the case and if there is a dispute as to what those facts are you have to make a decision one way or the other.

If you accept that he doesn’t sleep there and his home is elsewhere then they can’t be LTAHW. If you decide that his home is with his girlfreind then they are [i:265e9568eb]capable[/i:265e9568eb] of being treated as LTAHW, but you still need to apply the other “tests” mentioned in the decisions.

[Anonymous]

Emma
Just a suggestion (you may have looked at it already, but I can’t see that anyone has mentioned it).
Where does he keep his clothes etc? Depending on what his work is, I would have thought he may have to get changed before enjoying his couple of glasses of wine etc. If he keeps his clothes at his girlfriends house, that may give you a little more of a pointer. 8)

[emmadring]

Thanks for all your responses. I have done the reconsideration now and I decided to treat them as LTAHW but from a later date than the opriginal decision maker had done. I chose the date they declared that he was her common law spouse.

Thanks for the link Julian, unfortunately I haven’t been able to access any of the decisions referred to!

My opinion is that although he *may* have been sleeping at his parents’ house most week nights, he spent the majority of his free time at his girlfriend’s house and that therefore that was to be treated as his home. Decision on whether LTAHW just on balance of probabilities.

No Jon I hadn’t considered where he keeps his clothes, the information was not available and I din’t ask but you’re right it would have helped.

Incidentally the claimant phoned me yesterday and said that she might pay off the revised OP even though she doesn’t agree with the decision because she doesn’t want the stress of the appeal.

[Julian Hobson]

I think they are all here bar one with a bonus one too. There are probably others that are not listed here.

http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/pdfs/rg/3_71.pdf

http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/pdfs/rsb/17_81.pdf

http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/pdfs/rsb/19_85.pdf

http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/pdfs/rsb/35_85.pdf

http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/pdfs/cmmr_upload/cp/cp800195.doc

and page 49 on of http://www.parliament.uk/commons/lib/research/rp2004/rp04-065.pdf

which is an interesting bit of research for the Civil Partnerships Bill, the footnotes on publications might be useful too.

[Author]

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